For the OP's protection, as well as the
group he is in, I have edited this screen shot of some of the most
insane things I have ever read. Well, not for his protection, I just
edited it so that he doesn't get “harassed” by “mentally ill
liberals” and grammar nazis. For those of you who don't want to
read this butchering of the English language, he feels that
healthcare, food and shelter are not rights. In it he laments that
the person he was debating kept repeating that those three things are
rights, without presenting a legitimate argument, only that said
person believes, thinks, and is convinced that these things should be
rights. He also concludes that liberalism is a mental illness, but
you don't have a right to get that checked out, its a privilege.
Well, as someone who is mostly liberal,
I have some thoughts, beliefs, and I am convinced that these things
are rights, that whole right to life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness. Now, along in this thread I have seen people drag up
slavery, as in by creating a universal healthcare system, you are
making doctors, nurses, and the rest of a hospitals, doctors staff,
and all those who work in the healthcare system slaves. I have seen
arguments that just because everyone has insurance that it somehow
removes the agency of a doctor to refuse service. In a way I find
this belief funny, as the crux of their argument against something
like universal healthcare is that doctors would be forced to treat
all patients, forget the fact that they will still be paid handsomely
for their services, and who becomes a doctor, spends or barrows
hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn a trade that they will
never use? Certainly, there are some people out there who realize
that by becoming a doctor, you are entering a trade that will not
loose jobs for several more decades. Even in universes like Star
Trek, where money is not really needed (post scarcity), you still
have doctors. In my mind it becomes a question of who to ensure we
have plenty of doctors for people, and to ensure that they can earn a
living in their trade. Which with something like universal
healthcare, people still have the choice to become a doctor, and they
are insured that they are compensated for their work, without the
added expense of hiring bill collectors. As for the belief that the
right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness was just
propaganda, what about promoting the general welfare?
The housing not being a right is pretty
horrid if you think about it. We have people dying, every year,
because they do not have access to decent shelter. Yeah, we have
homeless shelters, groups who provide housing. I am going to use my
own local homeless shelter, in which you have to be in at 5 pm,
everyday. Yes, in order to get a bed there, you have to be inside
the doors at 5 pm. Before you get a cot, you have to listen to the
“Praise Jesus” lecture, and you only get the cot for a maximum of
two weeks. How do I know, a former co-worker was living there. When
we were let go from a part time seasonal job, he ended up going there
for two weeks, before he ended up sleeping under a bridge. At the
time, he was working three part time jobs for minimum wage (for a
total of 25 hours a week), and his final shift ended at 10 pm, which
meant that when he was working at Zaxby's, he would come in too late
to get a bed, and listen to the Praise Jesus lecture, therefore he
often found himself begging for a couch to sleep on. But in the
minds of those who do not see housing as a right, he isn't doing
something right. Of which I respond, the guy is working two part
time jobs, it isn't his fault that full time employment isn't
available. Its not his fault that he lost his third part time job
because his schedule is a complete mess, and he couldn't work when
his third job wanted him too, or he couldn't come into that third job
in a moments notice. Its not like he had a car making travel easy,
he had to walk from job to job, or grab a bus, and would show up to
work sweaty and covered in grease from his other jobs. But hey, the
guy is still trying, sleeping under a bridge or on a coworkers couch,
while washing his cloths and uniforms at the local laundry mat.
Somehow though, he is still a morally lacking and fiscally
irresponsible bum, right? I myself was homeless, living in a tent
for years. I had a job at the time, was working 30-40 hours a week,
making just over the minimum wage. Well, until my employer found out
I was homeless, and I got canned, then couldn't find work because
guess what? I didn't have a physical address.
Then there is the most hideous of
views, I mean you can live without healthcare, you can live without
adequate shelter, but you cannot live without this, you don't have
the right to decent food. Seriously? How can anyone claim a country
protects the general welfare of its citizens, where you have the
right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, even entertain
that food is not a right (to go along with decent air to breath and
clean water to drink). Seriously, how can anyone believe that eating
is a privilege? I mean seriously? Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury,
I have a start confession that I must make before we proceed with
this trial, I am an addict. Yes, Ladies and Gentlemen, I am an
addict, I admit. My heinous addiction is one that all of us have,
even if we do not wish to admit. I am addicted to food, specifically
pizza and chicken. Sure, I could have gone with more hardcore drugs
like crack/cocaine, or marijuana. I could have gone with the lesser
viewed caffeine, chocolate, or tobacco. I went straight for the most
hardcore drug possible, food. We must eat to power our massive
computer like brain, the muscles in our bodies to work. But here we
stand people, in the court of public opinion and being weighed is the
following, Is food, or eating in general, a right or privilege? If
we cannot work, or find work, does that mean we should go hungry in
until we either fall into the good graces of those who would give us
food, or we die. This certainly goes against the life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness mantra we were told by the defense was
merely propaganda, and that the general welfare only extends to not
getting overrun by the bad guys.
Honestly, the whole life liberty and
pursuit of happiness is propaganda thing is mind boggling for someone
like me. Certainly, I will admit that our Founding Fathers, were not
the saints we like to envision them as. Yes, they spoke of a nation
where all men were created equal, while most had slaves. The
dragging forth the specter of slavery is certainly outrageous, when
it is applied to people who are ultimately being compensated for
their work. While I will mostly agree that there isn't a state right
to service, we are talking about something that many people would
consider essential to living, or a lack there of would lead to an
untimely death. Here are some key things to keep in mind. We live
in an interconnected world, I think it is safe to say that everything
is interconnected, when homes are vacant, property values decrease.
When you go through town and there are homeless people littering the
streets, it makes things look bad. When people cannot afford even
the basics in life, a minimum standard of living, it reflects
negatively on every aspect of your life, even if you do not want to
see it. Those who cannot afford healthcare or health insurance,
those who cannot afford a home, and those who cannot eat drag society
down. Not them personally, many are just victims of some bad
circumstances. Good things happen to bad people, and horrible things
happen to good people.
But, here in lies the rub, and I am
going to say it, and it will offend some. I am not sorry for this,
not one iota. If you believe that food, healthcare (health
insurance), and a home are not rights, what kind of person are you?
Really think about it for a moment. What kind of person says you
haven't worked hard enough, done enough to earn healthcare, a meal,
or shelter from the blistering heat of summer and the stinging cold
of winter. You are a horrible person, you come off as I got mine,
screw you if you haven't got a pot to piss in or a window to throw it
out of. You want to know something else about yourself, when it
happens to you personally, you will be the first in line with your
hand out, and the thing is, there will be people there to help you.
That is what it will take for you, the believer that these things are
a privilege, to get off your high horse. Sorry, but not sorry,
people that feel that healthcare, eating, and shelter are a privilege
reserved for those who get lucky enough to have zero problems or no
failures to launch, you are a bane to existence. You come off as a
twerpy little libertarian, who doesn't understand these things. You
don't really understand that cancer can strike anyone at any time,
smoker or non-smoker. I could walk out of this house I reside in,
and get hit by a drunk driver walking to the store. And I, as
someone who has no health insurance will get lackluster care, because
I cannot afford either healthcare or health insurance. My parents
and I were evicted from the house we were renting, because the owner
found someone willing to buy it, in the meantime, the owner of the
house had sapped my father's income, but hey, I at least had the good
fortune to have a friend to supply the tent, as it was taking
everything I made and then some just to keep a crappy job, in an
environment where there weren't many jobs to be had. Just so you
know, my Dad spent 54 years working. Thats right, in 1958, at the
age of 16 he started working. In total he worked six jobs his entire
life. Two were part time until he graduated from high school, the
last driving a coal truck. I will also say that when he went to his
grave he felt himself a failure, because he spent years being
homeless, his “golden years” no less. I have known people who
lost part time jobs, because they couldn't be at the beck and call of
a part-time gig, which made their personal problems so much worse.
But please, do say they aren't trying hard enough. They don't
deserve the privilege of a basic standard of living.
The truth of it is, you think that you
and yours are an island all to yourselves. You have a basic standard
of living, you had good chances, made good choices, got lucky enough
that you didn't loose your ass in 2007 and 2008. In your mind, if
you are hungry, lack medical care, and cannot afford a home, it is
some moral failing on behalf of the person who lacks. Really, you
are the one with the moral failings. It never occurs to you, that
your line of thinking, your actions in the face of this calls for a
home, education, living wages (or UBI), clean air and water, and food
all devalue your fellow man. It allows those who have more than you
could ever dream of having, those higher on the proverbial food
chain, to set the rules to further influence the rules. You claim
that creating a universal healthcare system, ensuring that all have
food to eat, and a place to call home creates an environment of
slavery, yet you fail to see that you are enslaving yourselves. You
are allowing someone to make inordinate profits from your need to
eat, human misery and suffering, all for the sake of having just a
little more. You say you want freedom, but freedom is ultimately a
two way street. It is a give and take proposition, like it or not.
You have the right to refuse service for any reason, and people have
the freedom to not bother using your service. I have the right to
marry anyone I chose in this world, but you, if you are a preacher,
have the right to not perform the ceremony, while others have the
freedom to not attend your church or pay you to lead them into an
eternal bliss (if that is your thing). True freedom, is not want you
seek. You seek freedom for yourself, not for all. If you did seek
freedom for all, you would see that a universal healthcare system, a
living wage (or UBI), food, and a home for all would be the largest
expression of freedom. People wouldn't be a slave to work,
struggling to survive, they wouldn't be a slave to the potential for
illness or injury, the stress of trying to make it. Then they would
be free enough to have a basic standard of living, without the added
stress of mounting debts, looming homelessness, and fear. Nah, you'd
rather point your finger and claim they are a failure, you'd rather
blame everyone else for what ails this country. Well, that is until
its you or yours with the rumbling belly, sick and unable to get more
than the standard patch up to make you stable, or you are sleeping in
your car.
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